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David_Johnson

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Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 306
Reply with quote  #1 
Does Paul sill keep in contact with Kathy?? Most the songs are about her, Is she still alive? Where is she now? I would really like to know a little bit more about this kathy girl.
Was her name kathy chitty?
And is that her on the front of Paul Simon Songbook?

Thank You

Please post and tell me any information.

Thank You David Johnson

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'And from the shelter of my mind,
Through the window of my eyes
I gaze beyond the rain-drenched
streets.
To England where my heart lies.'

-Kathy's Song
nancysandwick

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Registered: 10/13/04
Posts: 5,558
Reply with quote  #2 


That is her on the P.S. songbook. Apparently she was at the Hyde park "O.F." concert in 2004. Anybody else know more details?

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Marcia

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Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 6,204
Reply with quote  #3 
Yes, in 1986, during his success with 'Graceland' Paul received a letter from Kathy Chitty whom he hadn't been in contact with since he went back to America in the early 60s with the SOS hit. He was apparently 'delighted' and wrote back. I do believe he has met up with her since although as she is a very private person, all attempts by the press to cajole information or her whereabouts out of him have failed.

A few years ago, they replaced the Homeward Bound plaque at Widnes Station, after it had been stolen and they invited Kathy to unveil the plaque but she declined.

Artie said in an interview that she was lovely and he was in love with her too!! Ha ha! He says she was like Twiggy only better and there is much talk of how quiet she was, I don't know really what that means. Perhaps she was very shy. Anyway as far as I know, she is now a Grandmother and living in the Welsh mountains (where she has lived most of her life).
babydriver

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Posts: 246
Reply with quote  #4 
I've heard her complete name is Kathleen Mary Chitty.
Nikki

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Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 1,580
Reply with quote  #5 
I was just thinking about this topic the other day! Crazy...helped me out though!
royd

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Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 3,064
Reply with quote  #6 
I don't know why I find this topic so annoying. Maybe it's because I think it's such an invasion of privacy to try to dig up information on a person who is only indirectly "famous" and only because she dated someone who later became a pop star. She moved on, folks, and so should we.
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nancysandwick

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Reply with quote  #7 
I don't think anyone is planning to stalk her. There is an interest because of Paul's songs that mention her.
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Acts of kindness, like rain in a drought, release the spirit with a whoop and a shout- Paul Simon
babydriver

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Posts: 246
Reply with quote  #8 
Exactly, Nancy. Nobody thinks about stalking her - I hope.
David_Johnson

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Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 306
Reply with quote  #9 
No no deffinatly not, But I find Paul's years in England interesting, Because I live in England I like to know where he played and stuff like that, And plus we don't know much about Paul's time in England, I was just wondering what happened to Kathy that's all.
And who's Emily? In 'For Emily Wherever I May Find Her'
I don't want to stalk her either just intrestedto kow if there was an Emily?

Thank You For All Your Information.

David Johnson

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'And from the shelter of my mind,
Through the window of my eyes
I gaze beyond the rain-drenched
streets.
To England where my heart lies.'

-Kathy's Song
MissSushi

The Obvious Child
Registered: 12/24/05
Posts: 780
Reply with quote  #10 
I think I read somewhere that Kathy came from a 'rich' family and that her parents didn't like Paul because he was a poor folk singer...well, that changed!
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babydriver

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Reply with quote  #11 
I should think he means Emily Dickinson in that song. Or does anyone know anything else?
David_Johnson

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Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 306
Reply with quote  #12 
Have you heard this song, 'Rose Of Aberdeen'

These are extracts from the song to further your comment MissSushi:

'You know, once I had a true love
Lord, her age was just sixteen...'

'But her parents did not like me
And now she feels much the same
If I'm written in your diary
Well, blot out my name..'

Is this Kathy????

Any other news about Paul Simon's stay in England?


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'And from the shelter of my mind,
Through the window of my eyes
I gaze beyond the rain-drenched
streets.
To England where my heart lies.'

-Kathy's Song
Das_Pithlit

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Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 87
Reply with quote  #13 
does anybody know if the song "overs" refers to kathy?

I saved this on my pc some time ago, don't remember where I got it from :/

They met at the very first coffeehouse Paul played when he arrived in
England in 1964. She was three years younger than him.
They broke up in 1965 [which speaks against my theory about "overs", I think], right about the time The Sound Of Silence became
a big hit. Some accounts have it that Kathy wanted no part of the
success and fame that awaited Paul.
Paul didn't hear from Kathy again until May 1991 when he was touring
England with Born At The Right Time and, to his delight, received a
letter from her. The British tabloids jumped on the story. They found
her married with three children and living in a remote village in the
Welsh mountains, working part-time at a technical college. She wasn't,
however, interested in talking to the press.


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Howard0181

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Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 17
Reply with quote  #14 
Paul met Kathy not at a coffee house but at The Hermit Club. Hermit Club (which is still going) was a folk club in Brentwood, Essex, England. I think Kathy was on the door taking money. I am talking 1964. I once had a conversation with Kathy.
royd

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Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 3,064
Reply with quote  #15 
"Rose of Aberdeen" is an old folk song that has been recorded by a number of people, including Joan Baez. It's sometimes titled "Rambler Gambler." Paul Simon did NOT write it; it's an old traditional song. Paul recorded a medley of "Rambler Gambler/Whispering Bells" with his Graceland band in 1986 but left it off the Graceland album. I thought at the time that it was brilliant to combine the two songs - the traditional "Rambler Gambler" is essentially a series of verses with no chorus and the doo-wop "Whispering Bells" is basically a chorus, so together they make a nice song even though they are from totally different genres and eras. Paul wound up giving his track to Joan Baez who released it - with Joan on lead vocal - on her "Speaking Of Dreams" album. Paul is on background vocal and guitar. It's a terrific track because of the Graceland band, but it omits the last verse of the song which I thought tied the whole thing together:

"Well, there's changes in the ocean
And there's changes in the sea
And there's changes in my old true love
But there ain't no changin' me."

Of course, it could be "no change in me," but I like the verb better than the noun in this context.

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Marcia

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Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 6,204
Reply with quote  #16 
Emily was a fictional character that neither Paul nor Artie had met but wanted to. I always thought Emily was Emily Dickenson but somebody on this board told me that alternative theory which makes sense too.

Yes I got my Kathy story slightly mixed up, I thought she wrote to him in 1986. It must be strange to look up at the TV or stage and see your ex-boyfriend who is now world famous and much older ... it must have been strange for her to have seen him become famous through the years and appear on TV and in the papers. She must feel like it happened to someone else.

She must have been sad to see S&G break up. I'd say she'd have an interesting story or two to tell should she ever! I don't think she needs to worry about being stalked - she's lived in relative peace most of her life, it looks like.
Howard0181

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Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 17
Reply with quote  #17 
Incredibly the Hermit Club is still going strong. Its very diferent though to what it was in in the 60's.

My daughter Francesca Berlin (17) performed "American Tune" at the Hermit Club when she was 15 in 2004.

I wrote about Francesca yesterday but my post was deleted as someone considered it was spam but there is a link with this story. Anyhow, my daughter Francesca Berlin has her debut single out in 5 weeks. If anyone is interested please type her name in Google and you can see all thats happening.

By the way. Hermit Club is in Brentwood, Essex.
ARTfulDodger

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Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 85
Reply with quote  #18 
Is Cecilia real?

I don't think she is, but anyway, since people have been talking about Emily it would be nice to clear up the matter for me.

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Das_Pithlit

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Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 87
Reply with quote  #19 
isn't cecilia the saint patron of musicians?
that would allow the interpretation that the song is not about a cheating girlfriend but perhaps paul is singing about writing a song, everything goes great until he takes a break and when he tries to continue his inspiration is gone but comes back later...
just a theory...

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Lennie

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Reply with quote  #20 
Perhaps a bit far-fetched, but very interesting however.
Is there anything written about this song in one of the biographies? Or maybe one of the interviews.

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Das_Pithlit

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Registered: 06/06/06
Posts: 87
Reply with quote  #21 
I don't think it's that far-fetched... aren't there one or two other songs where paul mentions a church named after st. cecilia? that would make sense
moreover, look at all the S&G lyrics
most of them don't have a simple, direct content.
"cecilia" is very simple: a man has a girlfriend, she's cheating him, she loves him again, that's it
that seems a bit too few for me if you compare it to all the other lyrics of S&G songs

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Who are we to believe that the future we perceive lies in danger and the dangers increase?
Lennie

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Registered: 01/09/05
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Reply with quote  #22 
Yes, I totally agree with you on this point.
Sorry if my last post seemed to be ironic. It wasn't.
I really think it is a very interesting theory.

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Erin

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Registered: 10/13/04
Posts: 865
Reply with quote  #23 
I didn't realize Cecilia was the name of a saint. It certainly is an intriguing interpretation!
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Reply with quote  #24 
Hey all..
For Emily is about a 'girl' that they had both hoped to meet one day. ( They described it as such in an interview and also I believe in stage banter at the 1967 Monteray Pop Festvial). We can assume they both have found their Emily's!

Kathy is still living in England. I know I either read this here or in an interview Paul did, but she and Paul recently communicated ( a few years ago). She is happily married and doing fine although Paul continues to respect her privacy and refuses to reveal who she is..I think they went for lunch or something..Paul said it or Art did. I read it in one of the articles. After a few hundred interview articles they all do get mixed up a bit.. But I do remember it as factual quotes from one of them. I can recall thinking, "that is cool!"

Cecilia..I have no clue. Sometimes though a song is just a song..and it could of been for this one..

Never connected the Saint thing though..sweet..

Take care..
Marcia

Feelin' Groovy
Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 6,204
Reply with quote  #25 
I vaguely remember something about Cecilia in an interview ... maybe it was what Art said, that Paul said he had this fluffy little song which he had no intention of recording. He played it for Art who of course (having a good ear for instant S&G hits) told him he just had to record it, that it would be a great sort of novelty, upbeat song on the album, which had a sad theme really. I mean almost every song on BOTW is about leaving. And of course he was right, everyone loved it. I would say Cecilia was more to do with fitting in with the melody and lyrics ... Cec-il-ia. Like Joe DiMaggio was. It's sweet to think that St. Cecilia is the Patron Saint of Music though. Maybe Paul was thinking about that.

And he does mention 'the church of St. Cecilia' in one of the songs from ROTS. I love that song actually. I love that image of the musicians on a sunny Summers morning, down by the harbour and the Church of St. Cecilia. It has made me want to find that place ever since I first heard that line! It sounds like a lovely place, all clean and white-washed with Bougainvillea growing and little boats in the water and maybe artists painting on the waters edge. A bit like Grease or somewhere.
royd

Omniscient S&G Authority
Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 3,064
Reply with quote  #26 
Coincidentally, I go to the Church of St. Cecilia's. No Rose of Jericho or bougainvillea, but some nice local flowers.

http://www.stcparish.org/


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timtak

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Registered: 01/31/12
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Reply with quote  #27 
The songs that are known to involve Kathy Chitty are

Homeward bound
America (mentions her by name)
Kathy's Song

We also know that PS refered to her as a "Haiku," which is a poem with few words, and that she was shy. In "Kathy's Song" he sings about the futility of words, and in Homeward Bound

Home, where my love lies waiting
Silently for me
Silently for me
Silently for me

It is interesting that PS wrote "The Sound(s) of Silence" (which is largely anti-silence I think) just before going to England where he met Kathy Chitty.

Paul Simon seems to debate, in his songs, the value of silence/speech and Kath Chitty seemed to draw him towards the silent side. 
ozbrit

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Registered: 09/22/12
Posts: 2
Reply with quote  #28 
This is a 6 year old thread, but it caught my attention as my Wife Alison knows a bit about Paul Simons stay at Brentwood, Essex, England in the 1960's.
It appears that Paul stayed at the family home of a friend of her elder sister. They resided at the time in Brook Street, Brentwood. It also appears the friends Father was in some way involved professionally with music either as a promoter or in the recording industry.

Alison recalls Paul visiting our Primary school in Brentwood - St.Helens RC and singing to the Kids. Sadly, this event totally passed me by. Incidentally Alison and I were classmates and would have been 9 or 10 at the time.  Alison recalls how her elder Sisters had mentioned that Paul appeared at The Heritage Club located just around the corner from the School in Shenfield Road, as well as at "The Railway" Pub in Warley Hill.

If only I'd recalled the live event 5-6yrs later when at High School! What a great story to tell your mates while hanging out at a coffee shop instead of attending lessons. The rock-ola jukebox in the cafe was a huge attraction. It was one of those wall mounted 'state of the art' type of things with clunky pages. Bridge over troubled water was in the charts at the time and it got almost continuous play, we never tired of hearing this gem of a song - how could you?

So just a little info on what Paul was doing at the time he'd have met Kathy, but sadly nothing about Kathy - sorry. But I can imagine that there may well have been problems with Paul's social acceptability. You have to consider how traditional parents would have been in those times in 'well heeled' Brentwood - a leafy suburb, 20 miles out from London. The swinging 60's may well have been thriving in the West End, but not so in 'the burbs' where generally speaking the Parents decided what 16yo girls could do.

But the times, they were a changin' - I wonder who I got that from?
brenda

S&G Connoisseur
Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 888
Reply with quote  #29 
Hi Ozbrit. Welcome to the Forum!  Thank you for your interesting info about Kathy Chitty.She did live with Paul in London for a while and travelled through America with him. I believe the reason for the break up was she did not want to move to the States to be with him! Would have been a big deal to leave for a young girl to leave her family in those days. What a shame you cannot remember him coming to your school!  Are you by any chance British living in Oz? 


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brenda pugh
ozbrit

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Registered: 09/22/12
Posts: 2
Reply with quote  #30 
G'day Brenda,

"Are you by any chance British living in Oz?"

You got that right in one!

There are a few guesses as to why Kathy didn't continue her relationship with Paul. The two we've mentioned and another which says Kathy shunned the spotlight. Who knows?

I have to say that I've enjoyed Pauls music, I find some of the early S&G stuff a bit on the tame side, but later numbers like kodachrome, Mardi gras etc are pure gold.
brenda

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Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 888
Reply with quote  #31 
Yes I am too. Live in Sydney.  You are right . We will never know why. Good they met up again after all those years. Remember him saying in the television interview with Sue Lawler that she was very shy. 

I do enjoy S and G but do have a preference for Paul's solo music. 



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brenda pugh
Helleborus

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Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 475
Reply with quote  #32 
For more info (just a little bit) see this page. This page is more about the songs Paul wrote in which she was pointed to. Three of these song we know: the fourh one is unknown for me, but maybe not for Brenda ;):


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rickedmo/Rickedmo_Kathy_Chitty

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brenda

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Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 888
Reply with quote  #33 
Paul first sang  :The Late Great Johnny Ace" in public at the S and G  concert in Central Park 1981. The lyrics were about violence in society and  referenced Johnny Ace,JFK and John Lennon. 
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brenda pugh
Helleborus

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Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 475
Reply with quote  #34 
Was it at this moment when he was attacked by someone who jumped on the stage? I was mistaken by the following sentence thinking about four songs:

  • In 1981 Simon included a nostalgic song called "The Late Great Johnny Ace" on his Hearts and Bones album that included a reference to Chitty:
It was 1964. I was living in London with the girl from the summer before.


Regarding "Heart and Bones" I have some info, but perhaps many members of the forum know this already. Paul changed this record from the original one, he was doing together with Art Garfunkel during their 1982/1983 tour in the USA. Listen to the concert they performed in Vancouver and you are able to hear they were preparing a new LP . I am so lucky to have this bootleg, but I do not post this on the forum: it is a really rare one and I`ll keep it private. For info or for getting the files please P.M. me but keep this alone for own purposes,
because I am afraid it will be taken off from the internet in one or another way!


Why Paul Simon erased the contributions of Art garfunkel nobody knows. The only thing I know, is that they did not speak to each other until 1993 unfortunately.

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Cher

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Reply with quote  #35 
Is that where One Summer Night came from? The strangest song I ever heard
them sing, like back in the 50's type of music and I loved it, but don't remember why it was sung, maybe only once??
Marcia

Feelin' Groovy
Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 6,204
Reply with quote  #36 
When Paul & Artie got a No. 1 with Sound of Silence, Paul told Kathy that he would return to the States, promote the song, tour around a bit, make a few thousand dollars and then return to England.  They had pretty bad luck with songs between Hey School Girl and SOS that they did not believe this would be a huge big deal.  I think Paul believed he would be returning to England again after a few months anyway and that is probably part of the reason Kathy didn't go back to the State with him.  But of course, the song proved to be a much greater hit and career platform than anyone imagined and Paul never did make it back to England.  I would say they got swept up in the whole new world of having a hit etc etc once they arrived in New York and before they knew it they were recording an album and a year had passed.  Maybe Paul did ask Kathy to come over to New York, but who knows - maybe she had moved on by then.  Maybe he had.  Couples break up all the time, they were just another couple.  They more drifted apart anyway, they didn't break up and it ended nicely, not badly.  He had Kathy's Song already written from the time he was in England and so added it on to one of the albums, it was a good song and an ode to Kathy, why not ... maybe he felt a little guilty and sad at the way things had gone.  I would not say Paul yearned after her for years or anything - I'd say he moved on pretty quickly.  The story of Kathy makes for good conversation in an interview.  When you read about her, the press try to make her sound like some sort of waif-like ghost or an enigma, but she's probably just a normal person who lived a normal life - she has one exciting thing which has happened to her in her life - she used to date Paul Simon before he was famous and he wrote a song about her, which let's face it, by the time he included it on the album he was no longer interested in her ... nice story to share with friends but that's all.  I hope she is happy and nobody goes near her.
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